Ep. 75: Jessica Hyatt, the Highest-Rated Female African-American Chess Player (with NM Tyrell Harriott)

Narrator: 0:05

Welcome to the chess angle. This is not your typical chess podcast. If you're an amateur or club level player, the chess angle is for you. Our content is aimed at busy adults who are serious about the game but have limited study time. Featured guests include both amateur and titled players alike. And now here's your host, director of the Long Island Chess Club, .

Neal: 0:37

Welcome everyone. Thanks for tuning in. My guests this week are candidate master Jessica Hyatt, the highest rated female African-American chess player, and her coach, national master Tyrell Harriet, a return guest, and the director of the Kings of Queens chess club here in New York. Welcome to you both. Glad to be here, pleasure to have you, and this is exciting for me as well, because this is my first group interview. Usually it's either a solo episode or I just have one guest, so I'm kind of excited that we have more than one guest in kind of a group setting. It's something I definitely want to continue to do. So, jessica, it's a pleasure to meet you and I wanted to start by discussing some of your recent tournaments and how it's been going. I saw that you played at the Marshall recently and in the World Open. Maybe you could tell us a little bit about that.

Jessica: 1:32

I went to World Open like two weeks ago and I got like five and a half out of nine in the under 2200 section and it was a decent tournament. I didn't really play that many players higher than me, but I played two. I lost to one and then the other one that I beat. That person that I beat, I played them like a couple times and it's like an even score currently. So after that tournament I went up like 20 points and then, coming back from that tournament, I went to the Marshall immediately after because I wanted to, you know, work on my reading a little bit and at that tournament I got four out of four, tied to first place, and made it to 2019.

Neal: 2:21

Okay, oh, that's great. And what about at the Marshall chess club? Because I saw you playing there a lot? You played in a couple of game 25s. What's it like playing at the Marshall?

Jessica: 2:30

Well for me. I've been playing there since I was nine and it's like it's very familiar and even though the players there are serious and a bit tough, it's like home.

Neal: 2:45

Yeah, no, that's like you stomping ground. That's where it's at. And if you're comfortable playing there, I mean you'll definitely get to 2200, because that's I mean I played there a few times when I was younger and I got crushed. I mean, it's like you said, the players, they are really, really strong of all levels. Now I saw recently you played in a game 25. Do you like those quicker time controls? I know Tyrell does and for those of you listening, tyrell again was a previous guest. It was a great conversation about the benefits of speed chess. So if you want to check that out, that's in our catalog. But going back to you, jessica, do you enjoy those game 25s, like with the five second delays that I assume? That's kind of fun for you? What do you think of playing those time controls as opposed to like a classical game?

Jessica: 3:31

I mean, I like them both equally, but game 25s they are a bit quicker and it's like, even though they're quick, they still count as standard rated games, and the quicker they are it's like I get more games in and I'm able to learn more from strategies of my opponents.

Neal: 3:54

Okay, now are you changing? I mean, obviously you have to move quicker, it's game 25. But other than that, are you changing any strategies or mindset? Like when you sit down to play game 25, other than obviously having to watch the clock, are you changing, like openings? Are you changing your mindset? Are you trying to be more tactical? Or do you play the same way you would in a classical game, but just quicker?

Jessica: 4:18

I play the same way, but in game 25, since it's quicker, I tried to get positions where it's like quickly winning or like strategic over. You have to think a lot because that means that your opponent's time get lower and stuff happens.

Neal: 4:36

So you like to get a position where you're making a move that's really forcing your opponent to think Is that right?

Jessica: 4:41

Yeah.

Neal: 4:42

Okay, rather than going first. You're not really going for some sort of like trappy mate right away, but you just you kind of want to throw them off their game. Basically that type of thing.

Jessica: 4:51

Yeah.

Neal: 4:52

Okay, all right, very nice. Now, currently you are entering we're recording this in July and summertime, so you're going to be entering your senior year at the Success Academy. So can you describe what it's like going there? And you know, I guess, the chess team and the chess program. What's it like attending that school?

Jessica: 5:13

Yeah, there is a chess team. It's basically people that I've been playing with since elementary school and middle school and the curriculum there is it's good, but it's very hard and it's challenging.

Neal: 5:29

Right Then when you say the curriculum, you mean the general, like English, math, the main academic subjects. What's the chess curriculum like there?

Jessica: 5:37

There's not really a chess curriculum. It's like a synchronous, like you just show up to tournaments. But in elementary school there was a curriculum.

Neal: 5:48

Right, this is more just kind of playing an events type of thing. Yeah, okay, now you won the Daniel Feinberg Success and Chess Award, which is a $40,000 college scholarship, so congratulations on that. Can you tell me a little bit about how that went down and you know what it was like to win that award?

Jessica: 6:09

I actually qualified for that award in middle school in the eighth grade, and to win that award you have to be over 1800 and I passed that in the beginning of eighth grade. So going into freshman year they told me that I was going to win the award and since quarantine happened I didn't get that award until sophomore year.

Neal: 6:31

So you are approaching your senior year. What are your thoughts about college, and you know where you want to go. What are your aspirations as far as once you graduate?

Jessica: 6:42

Well, my dream college is MIT and I would like to attend there and maybe major in something in the STEM field like biotech or computer science.

Neal: 6:55

That's awesome. I think that's great and I wish you the best of luck getting in now. I also saw something that you want to teach chess in the community when you get older. Tell me about that a little bit.

Jessica: 7:06

Yeah, I actually started teaching at Parks and I used to teach at a school last year, an after school program for kids in K to 12 and I would give them lessons and play and teach them openings and sort of make videos.

Neal: 7:26

Very cool. I saw something online. It's a quote that you said which I think is fascinating. I think it shows that you're mature beyond your years. You said the biggest opponent is yourself, so I was wondering if you could expand on that a little bit and how you incorporate that into your own mindset.

Jessica: 7:45

I got that quote from my mom and well, I don't know what she meant by it, but if I were to put it in my own words, it's like you could do anything that you want or aspire to be, but in order to do it, you have to overcome your emotions and the tasks that you have to do within yourself.

Neal: 8:08

Great, all right, very well said, tyrell, let's turn to you. Okay, tyrell for those of you listening again is Jessica's coach. Maybe you could tell us a little bit how you discovered Jessica and how you discovered her talent, and maybe a little sneak preview of what your coaching sessions look like.

Tyrell: 8:25

I discovered Jessica when she was in the fifth grade. I think that was in 2015,. Like in August she was working at Success Academy and she was rated about 350 at the time. She definitely liked the game and I do remember a couple of times like success is a very strict school. They have a lot of rules and a lot of expectations and I remember one of the expectations that they needed that Jessica wasn't fulfilling was being on time, and they had suggested to me a couple of times like hey, she's not making it, so you got to just drop her from the team. I was just like I'm not going to let this girl go because I see a lot of talent in her. So I would constantly make excuses like it was coordinated. But yeah, she definitely had a lot of talent and she was very serious about the game. She put in a lot of her own work. So it's not so much me, it was just that. I was just so. So I guess there to help nurture along the way. I do remember, like the other kids, because she would win so much, they would sometimes like to see her lose, to like the whole class is rooting against her, and it was one moment where she did lose and they were celebrating and she was kind of crying and I went over to her and whisper I'm like what are you crying about? Don't you see how happy they are? This is how it should be. Every time you lose, every time you lose this out, people are supposed to celebrate because you're not going to lose that often, and that made her feel a little bit better. But there was a lot of times. I mean, there's so many moments I can remember, but I also think one amazing moment where Jessica what was it? It was the States Championship and she ended up. She played in the under 1800. She's in the middle school at the time and she played in the under 1800 in the high school section and she achieved the perfect score there. So that was pretty awesome as well. So that was really great. There was also she beat two Grandmasters in one year, which was just last year, matter of fact, I was there for when she played Michael Rode, the Grandmaster, and she beat him. So to me this was pretty awesome, because it's one thing for me when I beat my first Grandmaster, I remember how exhilarating it was, and it was another thing to actually beat him when your student beats a Grandmaster for the first time. That's way cool. And then I ended up getting paired with him that same night. So I was like, hey, what did you play? So she went back there, prepped me and then I ended up beating him a second time out of like 20 games. So that was like one of the most amazing times for me. So that was pretty cool. So the student became the coach. And then there was another moment where there was a gala for a genius gala, that's what it was and I didn't get to attend. I think I was doing something. But Jessica was also being awarded for her achievements in chess and she was playing Mishra, who was the world's youngest Grandmaster. So that was pretty cool. So they had an exhibition match where it was an Armageddon match, where it's like two to three minutes and they were going to play and yeah, he was the favorite and this can also be found on the web, I'll send a link. But yeah, she, against all the odds, I mean it was a good game and then she was down a little bit but that resilience transferred and she came back and she won that game. That was pretty awesome. So that was pretty cool. But yeah, a lot of achievements that she's doing and she's still pushing through at it against all these. I guess it's not easy. It's a very tough game. People are harder now than they used to be. It's really interesting how the level's in chess and it just gets harder. But she's still at it and I admire that.

Neal: 12:29

Jessica, I want to ask you about some specifics about these grandmasters you beat. And then Tyrell, I want to come back to you to talk about coaching a little bit. Jessica, let's talk about the Michael Rode game. Which, well, Michael Rode is it? It's Rode, right, you beat him. He's a grandmaster at the Marshall. Tell me a little bit about that game, like what you remember, like what opening it was, like what were you thinking? Anything specific you could share? I'd love to hear about that.

Jessica: 12:54

It was like the first round of a Marshall Thursday and I remember I was a bit late. I was coming from the train and I was like five minutes late. I had had 20 minutes on my clock, my opponent had 25. And I was like rushing up the stairs and I was white for that game. No, actually I was black for that game and I remember, see, I played him a couple of times, so he knows what I play and he has this specific opening to play against me to get good positions. And he did play that and I was prepared for it. So we started playing the first 10 moves and it was normal he did his tactic or whatever, but the game was equal and I was able to take advantage of that and push for space and he didn't know what to do against that, since I've played these positions multiple times. So we got to the end game and we have about equal time and I was able to get my pieces active and he had an open game, so I was able to take advantage of that and win the game.

Neal: 14:02

That's great. Now, I mean, I'm sure you felt some nerves, but were you able to keep calm or did you feel like a nervous wreck, Like what was it? What was going on in your head?

Jessica: 14:10

Well, I was focused on the game. So I was like hand over the head because it was very tense and we had a crowd around the board because it was like one of the last games left.

Neal: 14:21

That's great. I need to borrow some of that discipline and composure because I could use that for my own game. That's fantastic. And then the second Grandmaster you beat. I know it was a type. It was more of like an exhibition game, but what was that game like? You know like as far as how it opened and what went down.

Jessica: 14:38

I played the same opening in that game. It was like it was actually pretty normal, but like he opened up on the queen side and was able to get like two pawns, so it was down two pawns to game. Even though I was down two pawns, I was able to take advantage of the space and open files and I was able to create tactics to win the game under time pressure.

Neal: 15:01

Right. So it seems like you have a good ability to kind of hone in on what your advantage is, even though you're down a few pawns. You're able to find that that lane to go down where you do have an advantage and, you know, go on to win, cause most people, if they're down two pawns, they would become despondent and would kind of blunder the game away. But you just, you know, you kept a cool head and you persevered and you won the game. That's great stuff, okay, congratulations. Well, I think you getting to 2200 is imminent if you're beating Grandmasters already. So, tyrell, I was hoping you could give us a little bit of a preview. I'm not asking you to reveal any top secret information but when you coach Jessica, maybe just a little insight on what that looks like, the type of things that you work on.

Tyrell: 15:48

No, okay, jessica, you could chime in anytime where you found some things that were useful. A lot of the times I was about mental toughness, about not giving up, about staying resilient, doing it because you love it, you know. Like you know, it doesn't matter what you do to study chess, as long as you're doing something that you like. So very early on I realized that she liked bullet chess, even though I tell her, hey, practice with the increment, you know competing that's, that's something big. Like you have to show up for these events. You know there's no sense in not playing rated chess. I mean, you can practice but still show up for the rated games. Well, you know blitz, she hasn't been playing as much blitz as she used to, even though she enjoys it. I can't get her out the house to play casual blitz anymore. And then right now I feel like she's under a lot of, I guess, focus on, like, hey, it's just the rated games. But I'm like, if you forget and you only do the rated games, it's going to be harder to achieve it. You got to enjoy the journey, not the destination. Yeah, just just constantly keep at it and remembering that you're you enjoy the game. I think that's the biggest things you got to remember. You enjoy it because you can catch some losses out there that will really deter you. And you got to remember that it's the competition that you like. You know, even if I talk about myself being a master, you don't lose that often when you play regular people, but when you go to these big competitions they really ego check you. You know you you're like wow, I played nine games, not only one three, but wow, the competition with Steph, because some masters play with masters. That's what happens. And so as you get higher and higher up, you lose less, but you learn a lot more from these games. And you got to remember that, even though these brutal beatings make you want to quit, you got to remember hey, this is the only time I get to play this, this, these quality people.

Neal: 17:41

Now I want to follow up on one thing. Tyrell, you said, like when you coach, you discuss like mental toughness and things like that. Now is that something you guys do you just discuss that verbally, or do you actually? Are you doing exercises on the chess board that address mental toughness? I wasn't sure if you meant it. I'm just curious because you know I agree with you that's such a big part of the game. So how do you address that with Jessica or any of your students?

Tyrell: 18:05

All right. So I would sometimes observe them as they're playing. It'll be positions where they want to give up or resign right. So there'll be times where I would, I would demonstrate to them hey, I will take your position, you know, or I'll, and I'll take their position and then win. You know, just show that like they're still life in the position, or I would start off spotting pieces and then I would make them spot pieces against low rated players where they're spotting Knights, bishops, rooks, you know, two, three pieces down a queen, like play the game, it doesn't matter. Okay, so now you got to play harder, that's it. You got to play harder even though you're down to material. And so they learn about dealing with the disadvantages and just being in there and like staying in it, and I think that really helped change their mindset on the game a lot. So that was definitely something and, jessica, please chime in if you remember anything that you know they said out to you.

Neal: 19:05

Yeah, let's go to you, Jessica. So tell me a little bit about, from your perspective, what it's like studying with Tyrell.

Jessica: 19:11

He used to show us a lot of his games and would have us play like him from certain positions and he would try and have us win certain end games which really helped ignite development of end games, and he would have us play against each other and try and guess his move, which really helped and like figure out, figuring out which move is good or bad.

Neal: 19:39

What I find fascinating, tyrell, about your teaching style is you're not just sort of saying, okay, let's look at this game in isolation or let's study this classical game. It's how can we emulate tournament conditions and the toughness? Is that correct? Because that's what I mean. I think that's a problem with chess teaching and chess study in general is that what people study or what coaches teach. It doesn't really emulate tournament conditions, where you're trying to do exactly that. I mean, would that be a correct characterization of your style?

Tyrell: 20:10

Yes, yes, definitely. So, as she says, says some of that now I definitely it brings me back to when we're used to work together more often. I used to compete a lot and so I would share these stories of these battles, me going to the Marshall and I beat this high rated player or beat this grandmaster, so they get all into the game and I get into showing them the exciting game. So all these games, even Blitz games also, where anytime I had good players kind of like we chessable has it, now Leechess has this feature where you can have the games there and then they could guess the moves and that was a really great way of them learning these ideas and particular squares to put your pieces on and these attacks. So Jessica also, she used to be serious about studying, so she would definitely review the games and go over them a lot. So that was really big for her. So, yeah, before chessable kind of came out, leechess had this feature and I thought it was really great. Yeah, that's definitely one of the other big things that she used to do, but yeah, a lot of she did a lot of self study as well and she did her tactics. She did a lot of tactics. She really took pride in being the best in the class. I should mention one other person. I'm going to shout them out because I also feel that he was instrumental in keeping her into chess because it was two girls at a time and it was Gia, gia, jean Baptiste and it was Jessica. So Gio used to be the lead in the class and then I remember when Jessica finally took first place and then she was winning all the games. But then girls I'm just going to say it could be anyone, but they were kind of like pulling away, as if they were getting bored with chess a little bit, because there was no one there to really push them. And then a Muhammad Utaul came in and when he came in in the fifth grade he was just like yo, I'm going to be the best, I'm going to be the best, and that would irritate them, but they didn't care so much until they actually got past them and raided. And I was trying to pull Jessica in to come to tournaments and such, but she wasn't coming. But he irritated her so much that after she broke her, he broke 1700 and passed her and raided. Oh my God, this girl really took it to heart and then she completely blew past them by 200 points. It was crazy yeah.

Neal: 22:41

All right, there you go.

Tyrell: 22:42

Another thing just to give them a shout out as well. He's also is winning this Dan Feinberg Scholarship Award this year too, so that's pretty good, and they're still good friends too. So that's another big thing. They keep pushing each other.

Neal: 22:57

Very nice. Now I enjoyed watching a Twitch stream of both of you playing and I'll link it up. It was kind of cool. In fact, it was a very interesting bishop and pawn ending. I think it was the same colored bishop and pawn ending. As part of your training, do you do that a lot, where you guys just kind of spar, like you play like training games rather than just study specific positions? Is that a big part of it?

Tyrell: 23:19

Yeah, definitely I would play them and I would I'm going to say the word terrorize, where I taunt them and laugh, intimidate them. I try to intimidate them because I'm like I'm their coach and if they could not see me as someone to be afraid of or I try to be intimidated so psychologically they won't beat themselves. So if they could get past me then there should be no opponent out there that could really mess with their head over the chessboard. And I remember this one. I began to notice like okay, this girl really really has that real potential. We were playing Blitz because we normally have the weekly Blitz and we were playing and she ended up beating me. But I was on the phone at the time. You know what I mean. I'm like all right.

Neal: 24:09

All right, come on now. Excuses, excuses, tyrell, come on.

Tyrell: 24:13

The whole class. I was losing, by the way, and I I lost. I was on the phone, all right. So the following week she has me in a compromising position and everyone in the class is gathered around to watch and she's like you're not on your phone this time as she's beating me. That's a great story so and I was like all right, I'm on the Jessica train.

Neal: 24:36

There you go, all right. So, jessica, let's go back to you at 15. If I have this correct, you were rated about 1950, which, of course, is extremely impressive. So I want you to take me back to the beginning a little bit. How old were you when you first started playing? And you know, I saw something that you were playing like five to seven hours a day. So can you kind of take me back to the beginning, jessica, like when you first started playing and how things progressed?

Jessica: 25:04

When I was like three or four years old I would play chess on my mom's computer for fun, Like I didn't know what I was doing, I was just playing against the computer. And then when I went to Success Academy in first grade they had chess as an elective and it was like required, so we would play every day for all of elementary school. And in third grade they started the chess club and I joined it and we had different coaches. And then in middle school, that's when Mr Harriet became my coach and he would take me to tournaments and basically teach me how to play the game with the openings and tactics. And then my rating for August throughout elementary and middle school I was rated severely low. I was like 300 or like 800. During middle school, that's when I started getting serious and I started going to tournaments and playing online and I was able to bring my rating up to like 1900. And then that was like eighth grade, I went to the state scholastics and I got six out of six in the under 1800 high school section and I was able to qualify for road use and for being 1900 at each 13. And then in high school, that's when quarantine started and I was able to bring my rating up a little bit by like 100 or 200 points. I was able to break 2100 at each 15. And now I'm still 2100, but I'm still working on becoming a master.

Neal: 26:41

Going back to your younger years. Well, I mean, you're going to be a senior in high school, but younger relative to where you are now. Like middle school were you. Was it mostly playing and studying? Was it both Like? What would you say? Is the? What was the percentage of like playing to studying, as you kind of shot up to 1900?

Jessica: 27:00

Well, there were like tournaments every week that I would go to and I would study after each game of the tournament. So it was a mixture of both.

Neal: 27:09

When you said you would study after each game of the tournament. Would that be going over the games or was it like additional material as well?

Jessica: 27:18

Going over the games and coming up with new stuff to get better, I guess.

Neal: 27:22

Right. So you would kind of dissect. In other words, it wasn't just like let me kind of go over the moves it was. You would really get intense in terms of like what could I have done? What's an alternate plan Like that's, how is that correct? And I want to talk about your quest to become a national master. Okay, to get to 2200. You're almost there. You're about a hundred points shy. So I have a number of questions I want to ask you. The first one is kind of a general question. Are you, is it the type of thing right now where you're like like itching to get it, like oh, it's like oh, geez, I just want to, I just want to get there? Or are you thinking it'll happen? When it happens, you know I'll get there organically. I'm not going to rush. Like what's your thought process there?

Jessica: 28:04

Well, I'm not really in a rush. I just play 20 minutes whenever I can and study when I get the chance.

Neal: 28:11

Okay, I think you're probably better off doing that, because if you start putting like so in other words you're not on any kind of timeline Like in six months I want to be 2150, nothing like that Probably better off now. What did you? I know you're working with Tyrell, but what is your sort of study plan? Look like now, just in a general sense, like is it mostly tactics? Is it studying your games? A little bit of everything. Is there anything specific that you do personally that you feel really helps you the most?

Jessica: 28:41

Well, I play chess for fun, so I would just do tactics, maybe bullets, but if it's before a tournament, I would go over my openings and do a lot of analysis before.

Neal: 28:53

Right. So when you say analysis, like openings analysis, or just of other games, of your games, or just a little bit of kind of a Pope array, a little bit of everything, A little bit of everything. Okay, and what do you feel is your biggest obstacle to get to master? Like, is there one thing, or maybe more than one thing, that you think is going to be, you know, the biggest thing to overcome?

Jessica: 29:15

Well, I think it's the availability of tournaments and like being able to travel and stuff like that.

Neal: 29:21

Right, and it's tough with you know, I guess with school and everything, and okay, so you're playing. I mean, we touched upon this earlier You're playing mostly, like, as far as in New York, it's mostly at the Marshall. Is that correct? Cause, like you said, that's kind of like home for you. So all right. So next question I'm asking this partly in jest, I'm being like half serious when I ask this when you get to master, like let's say you get 2200, are you going to some people like they stop playing because I got 2200. I don't want to ruin it. So are you going to be a I call them ratings preservers, or you're going to, are you going to keep going? I'm partly joking around when I ask you that, jessica, but I'm just I'm curious, like, once you get to 2200, what's going to be the thought process? Like, are you just going to enjoy that? Are you going to think, all right, maybe now FM or IM? Have you thought that far ahead?

Jessica: 30:05

Yeah, I actually want to get FUTI titles like WGM or maybe even GM, so I would definitely keep playing.

Neal: 30:13

That's awesome. That's awesome and you're you're well on your way to get there. So, tyrell, I'll just I'll go back to you. I don't know if there's anything you wanted to add to Jessica's quest to get to master. I just, if you want to get the last word in.

Tyrell: 30:25

I definitely would like her to come out more and not just focus on the only the rated games Casual Blitz, chess is why you say that you enjoyed it. I know when she went to world open she definitely commented and said what she really enjoyed was playing the Blitz at world open. I remember you know sometimes she would get down if she didn't get the performance that she wanted and I just remember her playing Blitz at the last session with a Muhammadou. They were acting so silly, just they. I think they just enjoyed banging the clock honestly, but I think that just changed her spirits, even though she she didn't get the results. So a lot of times it's not about the results. Just remember, you played this game because you enjoyed it and I think that was the biggest thing. She really had a great time.

Neal: 31:13

And you want her playing, obviously as much as possible.

Tyrell: 31:15

Play Just because you enjoy it. You enjoy it. Yeah, just keep playing because you enjoy it. That's the important thing. What about the destination? Is the journey?

Neal: 31:23

Absolutely All right. So I think I'm going to end it there. So, tyrell and Jessica, it was a pleasure having you on. Really enjoyed the conversation. Jessica, it looks like you're on your way. You've got a great spirit, a great attitude. We wish you the best of luck. I would love for you to come back on once you get to 2200 and you can tell us about that. So, tyrell and Jessica, thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate it. Thank you, neil. I hope you win your next game. Have a great day, everybody.